Fadi Boulos on Fighting Lebanon's Brain Drain, Building Cultures vs. Offices, and the Future of Technology

In Brief: Dr. Fadi Boulos, Founder and CEO of Supportful (supportful.world), joins host Dan Freehling (contempusleadership.com) to discuss Supportful's mission to combat brain drain in Lebanon by connecting international tech companies with remote Lebanese talent. Fadi discusses the historical context of Lebanon's brain drain, the importance of building a remote work culture, and the innovative strategies Supportful employs to foster team cohesion and growth. The conversation also explores the future of remote work, the impact of AI on work, and the need for an educational system that develops citizens. Fadi emphasizes the importance of empathy, transparency, and continuous learning in leadership, drawing from his diverse international experiences and personal values.

Recommended reading: The Bible, “Steve Jobs” by Walter Isaacson.

Transcript

Dan Freehling (00:01):

Welcome to Forward-Looking Leadership, a podcast for visionary leaders building future ready organizations. I'm your host, Dan Freehling. I'm the founder of the coaching and consulting practice Contempus Leadership, developing the leaders and teams you want in charge through cutting-edge approaches and common-sense solutions. I'm honored to be joined today by Dr. Fadi Boulos. Fadi is the founder and CEO of Supportful, a software engineering consulting firm on a mission to reduce the brain drain in his native Lebanon. By providing international tech companies with remote talent, Fadi enables young educated people to stay in their hometowns and contribute economically to their local community. Listeners, you're in for an inspiring conversation with a truly purpose-driven leader. Thanks for joining me on Forward-Looking Leadership, Fadi!

Fadi Boulos (00:44):

Thank you for having me, Dan. I'm so happy to be having this conversation with you.

Dan Freehling (00:48):

Yeah, really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your insights, Fadi. So first, could you please share with listeners a bit more about what you're up to at Supportful?

Fadi Boulos (00:57):

So at Supportful we're on a mission, which is to reduce the brain drain and Lebanon. And we do this by working with the international tech startups. We provide them with remote engineers from our team, so who are based in Lebanon. And the idea is really for these companies to augment their teams to be able to grow while using our resources. And for us we would be making an impact, which is to beyond keeping those engineers in Lebanon, we want to keep them in their hometowns. We want to keep them in their environment so they can contribute to the development of the economy in the community where they live. So we function as a no remote company and it's been three years we're doing this. We're happy with the impact we're doing and our clients are happy.

Dan Freehling (01:54):

It's fantastic. It's such important work and thanks for all you're doing and for sharing that with listeners. So for those not terribly familiar with the historical context in Lebanon, what has been leading to the brain drain?

Fadi Boulos (02:09):

Lebanon has been experiencing rain drain since its modern existence in the, I would say 19th century. But most recently in 2019, there was a big crisis, financial crisis, economic crisis, political crisis, and it was labeled by the World Bank as one of the worst crisis to hit a country in the last one 50 years. And just to give you an indication on the scale of the crisis, so we've had triple digit inflation for three years in a row, our currency depreciated by 98%. We had shortage in power medicine, internet connection, and all the basic services. So it was quite a tough period. And during this time, Lebanese and generally young, educated Lebanese started leaving the country and because of the Lebanese diaspora and the presence of Lebanese almost everywhere in the world, so everyone has a cousin or a family member somewhere abroad. So it's easy for them to leave the country and this has a really devastating impact on the country's future. If you want to rebuild the country, you need the young educated skills and we are losing this. So I thought, I mean I should be able to do something on my scale and if everyone does a little bit, maybe we can tackle this problem. It's going to stay there, but at least we can reduce its magnitude.

Dan Freehling (04:06):

Again, just really inspiring work. You're up to here. Fadi, turning to remote work, you're a leader in the remote work space with Supportful. And before this recording we talked about your concept of building a culture versus building an office. Could you expand on that idea? How do you go about growing a culture in a remote organization?

Fadi Boulos (04:24):

Yeah, usually in remote circles we laugh about companies that really need an office to build a culture and those things are two separate things. So it's really building a culture is instilling a mindset in the company that reflects the leadership values, that reflect the company's values, the vibes that you feel when you're in a team. And this should have nothing to do with whether you're working in the same office or you're working across borders. And this is what we're trying to do at Support Hall, really working on reflecting the company values in our daily work. So when we say that transparency is one of our values, we walk the talk and we are transparent whenever we are dealing with our clients or with our employees, when we say it's about ownership, we make sure that everyone owns their tasks, not just delivers them. Same goes for growth. So we are very much into growth and whether at my personal level where I try to grow every day and learn, I also push the team to adopt this mindset and find them opportunities for them to also grow. So it's really, I would say the culture is about walking the talk and making sure that the environment is really the environment that you as a owner of the business would like to work

Dan Freehling (06:07):

In. It makes so much sense. So it's about walking the talk and cultivating this culture rather than focusing on the physical office.

Fadi Boulos (06:14):

The office as the office is not a need but social interaction and in-person interaction is appreciated. And we make sure because we are a no remote company, that we have social events more or less every quarter to make sure that people get to see each other shake hands. And we are all in Lebanon, it's a small country, it's easy for us to meet every now and then. So we do believe in the importance of social interaction, but it just doesn't have to happen in the office. It can happen anywhere.

Dan Freehling (06:52):

What an important point. So you do quarterly social gatherings. What do those typically look like?

Fadi Boulos (06:57):

So we have a yearly company offsite, usually it's in the Q1, so the first quarter of the year and it's a social gathering where we spend a day together, we have lunch together, we have breakfast together, we have coffee together, we make sessions that mostly are adjacent to software engineering but not really core to it. We also do sessions that really that don't have anything to do with the business. Last year we did a very interesting session that really got so much praise from the team, which was about psychology, stress and burnout, and everyone appreciated that. So this is a yearly event. Then we have during our calendar year, depending on how they happen, but we have an annual, which is during Ramadan in Muslim countries, you have this tradition of people gathering around the table every evening during the month of Ramadan. So we do it once for our Muslim team members, but we all gather around the table.

(08:18):

We do a hike usually at the beginning of the summer or the end of the summer and we do our Christmas dinner. So these are the four main activities. And sometimes last year we participated in tech timeout, which is a global initiative for people to spend some money, sorry, some time far from screens. So it's a timeout from screens and tech. And last year what we did, we coupled this with a CSR action and we went and gave robotics course to children in a disadvantaged school. So it was also an opportunity for us to be together.

Dan Freehling (09:04):

How cool to hear. So this being intentional on team building, on social interaction, it sounds like it's core for you. And remote is great, paired with this intentionality around actual social interaction and doing that in a way that builds team and builds community and builds that giving back muscle as well.

Fadi Boulos (09:22):

And especially in the software engineering field where this reputation for software engineers to be quite isolated, sometimes socially awkward. So we don't want the remote setting to become a place of isolation and loneliness. We want people to feel that they are part of a team. And another aspect is obviously our virtual workplace, which is teams and so on teams, we try to interact as much as possible to make sure that no one feels alone at all.

Dan Freehling (10:02):

How do you structure that interaction on teams?

Fadi Boulos (10:06):

So we have multiple channels, so some channels for work, for resources, for learning, some others for fun events, random stuff. And we have one channel which is the water cooler channel in this channel. It's really the idea is to replicate those water cooler conversations that you get to do in the physical office but you don't have the chance to do in the virtual office. So what we do is whenever someone gets in there, they can trigger a video call, a group video call, and whoever is available at that point, they will get a notification and whoever is available, they might join this call. So the idea is really to replicate this random moment when you meet someone, you start chatting around the water cooler in the office. If I may add, just remember that there's one thing that we started recently and people are just loving it, which is random calls. So whenever someone joins the team, we plan a random call with a teammate. So once every month for the first six months. So the idea is for them to get to meet most of the team while working remotely and people are just loving it, both newcomers and current team members.

Dan Freehling (11:35):

That's so cool. So what's the random call idea? What does that look like?

Fadi Boulos (11:39):

Yeah, so we suggest an agenda. So we say, okay Dan, your next random call will be with Fadi. And we propose a suggested agenda, which is a brief intro about each person, their background, their profile, then they can get to the non-work thing, aspects of themselves, let's say what's their main hobby, what's their preferred activity, how they spend their time outside of work. And then it's open, it's really open to any topic. It could be something currently happening, just we try to help them trigger the conversation. But most of the time just after they get introduced, they say, yeah, I work in this technology. They might find some common point, they might find things to debate or discuss, and then it's usually smooth, the flow is smooth,

Dan Freehling (12:45):

That intentionality on team building is admirable and is something leaders should take into account with any kind of culture, but especially a remote one. So thanks for digging into that. For those listening, I know there's been a huge surge in remote work during the pandemic and immediately following it. And it seems like that pendulum is kind of swinging back for a lot of the larger companies, at least here in the US I'm not sure. Globally, what do you see as the future for remote work overall,

Fadi Boulos (13:11):

I'm pretty confident that remote work is here to stay. Yeah, it's even beyond the us there has been a backlash against remote work and what has become to be known as the RTO mandate, the return to office mandate. So they are enforced everywhere, but eventually company leaders are noticing that, okay, we can force people to come back, but this won't change the fact that first work was being done well, even in remote settings and two people are not really appreciating the lack of flexibility. So the idea is really not to be remote, but to be flexible and to allow people to work from there where they want. So in our case, we are intentional about it because it's part of our mission, but the idea should be for everyone to allow this flexibility around the location as long as the work is properly done and people can work in an environment where they can take calls.

(14:26):

I mean, why would you want people to be sitting next to you? Sometimes I think about it more as failure to properly manage your team and make sure that they have the right goals and you have the right framework to make sure that these goals are met. So globally I would say now people are realizing that we can't go back to pre pandemic and the remote work turned out to be working well. So I think with time, more of the hybrid policies will turn to flexible policies where people are free to come to the office or work from the location of their choice.

Dan Freehling (15:19):

The flexibility framing makes a lot of sense. I tend to agree on all accounts that you've mentioned, especially with the ease of management. I think driving a lot of this desire to kind just see people and not have actually thought about what makes someone productive, what their actual goals are, what success looks like, how do you assess that? And just hiring and trusting top people. They're always going to have this option to be flexible and it's a question of whether or not you end up being able to attract them to your firm or not. And something I've noticed is the best people have always been able to be remote or flexible in some way, and I don't see that changing.

Fadi Boulos (15:52):

Absolutely. And maybe one additional factor that companies would take into consideration from here on many of them, especially big corporate, they have these real estate assets that they need to make use of. And I think now companies will invest less and less in office space. So if they keep growing at some point they will be forced to adopt a more remote friendly approach. So I think this is a long-term thing, but this will also play out in the future of remote work.

Dan Freehling (16:37):

Yeah, you're so right. They're going to justify the investment in these assets and that will be less and less the case over time and it just doesn't make a ton of business sense besides whatever you're making on the real estate end of things to be throwing away money on office space either. So such a great point there.

Fadi Boulos (16:52):

Yeah.

Dan Freehling (16:53):

So there's so much on the social good end of Supportful that you've gone through and is again just so admirable. Beyond that, what makes these international tech companies want to work with you?

Fadi Boulos (17:06):

Well, straightforward answer because they will get access to good talent at a cost effective price. So what we provide is a talent pool of vetted software engineers who are vetted for both hard skills, so technical skills, soft skills, and culture fit. So this is one problem that was a big problem a couple of years ago during the pandemic. Now it's more of an employer market, so it's less of a problem, but when things pick up, hopefully in the near future it's going to become a problem again. So talent shortage is a, and we are able to bridge that gap. Another thing is companies trying to increase the diversity of their teams.

(18:01):

This is one aspect that could help them and help us work together. And another factor that is non negligible is our cost effectiveness. So companies, let's say in the US are working with us, usually see savings of more than 50% compared to in-house hiring. With the flexibility they get to say, okay guys, next month we don't want to continue because this project is done, or we want to allocate the resources to another project and they have this flexibility. So for all of these reasons, companies work with us and maybe also because in our DNA, we are tech people, so we understand their pain points, we present the right candidates, even if they're not 100% fit, they are at least an 80% fit and our transparent approach. So when we don't have a good profile, we say we don't have a good profile for you. And when we have ones that stand out in a specific area, we will mention it. So I think for all of these reasons combined companies work with supportful.

Dan Freehling (19:23):

It's amazing how that trust and transparency works, isn't it? You mentioned a lot of the values that you aim for at supportful. I'd love to hear more on that type of environment you're looking to create and how this differs from more traditional firms.

Fadi Boulos (19:36):

So I always say whatever I'm doing as the complete opposite of all the bad things I've seen in the corporate world. So I've worked in France and the UK and in Lebanon for big telecom operator companies and the four smaller companies and all the things that I didn't like in these companies. I'm doing the exact opposite to make sure that the environment is always a positive environment with the growth mindset. So when I say positive, it's really about avoiding the blame game. Whenever there's a problem or a failure, we tolerate failure. As long as we draw lessons from it, it's always an assumption of good faith and all the team and always pushing them to do their best while making sure that no one is burnt out or even that their life work, what I like to call the life work harmony is in place. So we try to make sure that everyone is in their best mental and physical state and that work does not affect that at all.

Dan Freehling (21:07):

Such important points on pulling from all the negative lessons. And from your international experience too, for those who aren't familiar with this life work harmony concept, could you explain what you mean by that?

Fadi Boulos (21:18):

Yeah, so in the corporate world, it's work life balance. And so my first thoughts on this was that it should be life work balance because life comes before work and it's more important and work should be part of your life, but life should be the ultimate objective. So to have a sane and enjoyable life. So this was the first evolution, so life work balance. And then I thought balancing is between two things that are maybe on the opposite, maybe quite different. I know that you shouldn't assimilate work to life or life to work, but it should be as much as possible in harmony and that people who work in the field of their passion, they excel the most. So even if we are not there yet for all people, as long as you're making sure that whatever lessons, let's say you draw in your life, you apply at work and vice versa, I think you can get to that harmony and avoid those Sunday blues moments. Or is it Monday blues? I don't know.

Dan Freehling (22:47):

That's great. I don't think I've heard the switch of the life and work and that's something I'm definitely going to take forward from you. So right on all this, people thrive when they're doing work that they're really made for and that they're able to bring their full skillsets toward. And on the skillset front, how do you approach staff growth and development?

Fadi Boulos (23:08):

Okay, so yeah, this is an area I like to elaborate on because we are doing this collaboratively. So as I told you, growth is one of our values and for us, you should grow in a way that helps you personally as a person and not only the company. So the idea is for every person in the company, we sponsor 50 hours up to 50 hours of upskilling and training every year. So this training or upskilling program is decided collaboratively with the person, with the employee. So we sit together and we say, okay, so you're very good in this area, but you lack some skills in this area and this is let's say a technical thing or you're very good technically and you should be able to lead a team now. So let's invest in a soft skills training. The idea is really to prepare the person for the next step in their career.

(24:14):

And so that's how we prepare the training together. And then they start taking the training and when they're done, they get a bonus for completing the training. So in this case, it's something that will be much of use to them and hopefully to the company too. So we are quite strict when it comes to training because we want everyone to stay on a growth path. And yeah, I think, and one more thing, we are not limiting ourselves to a specific platform. So the training can be consist of multiple courses from different platforms. We don't mind at all. The objective is really to spend the time in learning and learning new stuff and eventually applying these in the next step in their career.

Dan Freehling (25:14):

It's a refreshing perspective on staff growth and development of it being not just for the immediate benefit of the org, but for this broader perspective of developing staff as people and in their interest areas to keep them on a growth path. Growth as a corporate value is kind of unusual. How did you come about that?

Fadi Boulos (25:32):

I think it reflects some of my personal values and I've always believed in this French saying, which literally means to sleep a little less dumber every night. And the idea is to keep on learning every day. So yeah, I make it a point to learn about anything really. It can be anything every day. So I read a lot, I watch interesting and educational videos. So I think it's a personal trait and I think it's good when it's applied to a team because especially in our field where if you don't know a technology today, you might be fine, but tomorrow you might be dead. So it is a must for us to keep learning. Now with AI and everything around it, it's becoming, I mean, some things might become more or less obsolete in a couple of years, so it is a must for us. We have to always progress. And so yeah, I think this coupling between my personal take on it and its need in our industry or pushed me to implement it and make sure that it's one of our focus areas at work,

Dan Freehling (27:24):

It makes so much sense and just a great saying. And another one I'll be putting in my pocket

Fadi Boulos (27:28):

In French or in English?

Dan Freehling (27:30):

Well, unfortunately, unfortunately in English for me, I wish I had this command of multiple languages like you, but alas. This growth of staff being important for the constantly evolving tech landscape too. I think that's something that gets overlooked a lot of the time, but learning how to learn is so key for people in fast moving fields and now that tech is increasingly impacting not just straight up technology people, but across industries. I think it's something that a lot of executives need to take into account as they look at their values as an organization and how they invest in training and development.

Fadi Boulos (28:04):

Absolutely.

Dan Freehling (28:05):

Which books or other resources of any kind have been most influential on you as a leader?

Fadi Boulos (28:14):

I wouldn't say there's a bunch of defined books or resources. What I can think of is, I'd say as a leader, I have some aspects of empathy in my leadership, and I think I would trace this back to my Christian upbringing. So I'd say the Bible influenced some of many of my traits as a leader, and I try to stay up to date with whatever is happening in the tech world, in the business world, even in the world politically. So these I think help me have more or less holistic view when I approach things. I would say two business leaders who influenced me each in one aspect. So Steve Jobs as the visionary person, I have always seen myself as a tactical person. And since I watched the movie about Steve Jobs, it's really about having this vision and making sure that you implement it and that every action falls under and for this vision. So yeah, I would say Steve Jobs for this aspect, and obviously Warren Buffet for the frugal way of living, for the philanthropy part, giving back whenever you can. I mean, if he pledged to give 95% of his wealth, I mean we can probably do with one or 2%. So yeah, when I think about those who influenced me, I would think of these two people.

Dan Freehling (30:27):

The vision of Steve Jobs and the wisdom of Warren Buffett is a good place to get started for sure. So very interesting. On your Christian upbringing and the Bible being an influence on your leadership, how do you see these really impacting you as a leader?

Fadi Boulos (30:41):

I think it's mostly the empathy and really trying to see myself in someone else's shoes and being easily able to do it. And the other thing is the collective good working for a collective good. So even if something is not beneficial to me directly, but could be good for the group, it's something that we should favor while making sure that everyone is respected in their own character and person. I'd say, yeah, in this aspect,

Dan Freehling (31:31):

The values and action are really coming through and everything you're doing, and it's just great to see. And it's not just making money at all costs, but let's run a successful business, let's make money along the way and let's support a collective good. And it's something that doesn't have to be distinct and separate, but to the lifework harmony point, it can all be part of that same harmonious cycle.

Fadi Boulos (31:51):

Exactly.

Dan Freehling (31:52):

So you mentioned AI as well and all these other tech advancements coming up. What's your read on the future of technology, ai, any of that kind of thing?

Fadi Boulos (32:00):

Well, we're living in interesting times, although sometimes I say everyone lived in interesting times. It's really about how you see them anyway, in terms of ai, yeah, it is one big revolution and it's going to change, at least at the beginning, many, many of the mundane tasks that we do. And this would be the first area where AI will help people. So increasing productivity, and I'm sure many people, many listeners are already using AI to summarize their text or to give them a starting point when coming up with a new idea or when generating content. So I think these will become a no-brainer in the next few years while AI might be able to tackle a more complicated process, and it's becoming now commonly called the agentic revolution. So these AI agents that would work in Cascade and they would create a chain of actions.

(33:21):

So let's say you start off with saying, I want to attend a technological conference in the US in Q2, 2025. So AI would go and fetch you a list of relevant conferences, and if you say, okay, I want to attend this one. So AI would go and book you a ticket and then book the flight and the accommodation and get you everything done. So this kind of revolution is coming soon because it's very determined and it's easy for AI not to miss anything if you say, okay, I want to fly during that week and let's say a direct flight, and I want to stay in a four star hotel with at least 4.5 over five reviews rating on Google. So these are quite deterministic actions where AI cannot go wrong because till now, the problem with ai, and when we say ai, it's really LLMs large language models like cha g pity. So the thing is their hallucination. And so the more secure they become, the more guaranteed the outcome, the more usable they will become and the more impactful. So I would see this as the next revolution in the coming years. And obviously people using AI will replace people not using ai. So until AI becomes good enough to replace some jobs, which is something to expect in the next seven to 10 years.

Dan Freehling (35:10):

So until then it's using it in the ENT way to drastically increase your own productivity, to take a lot of that rote busy work or admin work off your plate to let you be much more productive. What do you think it would look like, and you said seven to 10 years to really start replacing jobs. What's your best guess of what that could actually look like?

Fadi Boulos (35:30):

I think mundane tasks, I would say those who are really about, let's say, taking notes or secretarial work, this could be a first area that could be impacted for design and creativity, although I still don't see it happening now, but it might become so good at creating things and it'll be trained on a specific person's style, and then content creation will become very, very fast. And you would write an article based on predefined ideas and your unique style, and it'll write it in a minute or two. This could be an area while, and the part about summary summarizing text documents, articles, while I think it's straightforward and it's already happening, I'm a bit skeptical about the impact of this task being handled by ai. Because whenever you want to grasp a concept and you read the paper, when you start summarizing it yourself and writing down your notes, this is a crucial part of the learning process for human beings. So if AI is doing this, I'm a bit worried that our structural thinking might be impacted. This is something that I didn't find many people talking about. I'm not sure if it's a lack of research on my end, I should probably dig further. But I mean, in my readings when I read, I usually take notes. So the idea is really to summarize things and learn them if AI will be doing this job. So yeah, I dunno how this will impact our learning process.

Dan Freehling (37:51):

It's such a good point and not something I had fully thought through in that way, but it sounds right that you're losing something if you get everything spoonfed to you as a summary and there's value in the way that you're thinking about things, the way that you're learning things, especially as technology continues to shift to your previous point on growth and employee development, is learning how to learn as important as getting the content or even more important than getting the content.

Fadi Boulos (38:17):

So I mean, ultimately this agentic revolution will lead to somewhere, and this is quite philosophical by the way, where we won't have anything to do. So let's say in 100 years you ask an AI agent to solve a big problem on its own, and it's able to do so what is left for you to do? But this is in the long future, I don't know. It raises questions about the meaning of life then when someone can do anything on your behalf.

Dan Freehling (39:04):

What is life in abundance and what is life in a world of not needing to work? It's a really interesting question, and I think you're right, a philosophical one as well. And it's important, almost all of us don't have that luxury now and beyond needing to work to survive or for sustenance or for something to do during the day. What is work about, what is life about?

Fadi Boulos (39:27):

Yeah,

Dan Freehling (39:28):

So you've lived and worked in various countries and cultures and in different languages and all of that. How has this international and cross-cultural exposure impacted you as a person and as a leader?

Fadi Boulos (39:39):

I think it gave me every country, every culture gave me some of my current traits. So I would say obviously the biggest influence is my Lebanese culture, which is I was born and raised in Lebanon. I spent most of my life in this country. I only spent eight years abroad, mostly in France and almost half a year in the uk, in England. So yeah, I think as a Mediterranean culture, we are very welcoming. We are very helpful, but sometimes we lack rigor and discipline, and I'm sure if you've ever driven in Rome or in Marsai in France, you can see the difference between driving there and in any other western city. So yeah, the lack of discipline and rigor was compensated by the French part, which is very, in corporate France, it's all about processes. French bureaucracy is famed for a reason, and its roots are in this idea of organizing everything, at least trying to organize, even if it doesn't work, but trying to organize, trying to put in place processes. So I think these help shape my more disciplined and structured aspects. And what I really liked in the UK is really this entrepreneurial spirit, this legacy, and doing business, creating value. And I think, yeah, all of these, I mean, my current personality has some parts that are taken from each of these cultures.

Dan Freehling (42:04):

It's a fascinating assessment and you can really see it all coming together for you as a leader and for Supportful as an organization. You also have high levels of education, PhD, and you grew up in Lebanon as well. So knowing all now with all your education experience, with all your executive experience, if you could redesign the education system, particularly in Lebanon, but also open to university and postgraduate education as well, what changes would you make based on what you know now?

Fadi Boulos (42:34):

Oh, I'm not going to go into rant on the education system because you're welcome to. I'm going to try to sum it up because currently the education system is so outdated, and one indicator that is known to everyone makes it really clear. So you leave the K 12 system, you graduate and you go to college, and you look back and you say, my God, why did I learn all of this? If it's not useful at all during my college years, then you leave college, you graduate, and you go enjoy the real world, and then your colleagues at the office tell you, yeah, whatever you learned at college, just drop it. You learn something new here. So we invest almost 20 years of our lives in an education system that is not giving you any tangible value. So I know that it's good to be enrolled in a system where you get used to the discipline to doing homeworks, to learning, but it can be much better for this amount of time and money invested.

(43:53):

And so whether in Lebanon, Lebanon is Lebanon's education system is modeled after the French one, but with some delays or whatever is being done in Lebanon, was done probably in France 10 years ago. So I think we need more to be modeled around the Nordic system. So let's say the finish system, which is one of the best in the world, and I see it with my kids, it's more important to focus on teaching them how the food they eat arrives on the table, how they should think about money, how they should think about the world and the environment to be more taught, the principles of critical thinking, to be more aware of how to deal with people. So many aspects that I think are overlooked and yeah, we have so much work to do in Lebanon around this. I think it's a worldwide thing, but the challenges here are clear and we need to distance ourselves from the traditional educational system.

Dan Freehling (45:26):

It's interesting that you don't go toward making it very vocational either, because I think sometimes when people have criticism of education, they go toward, it should be a job training program, basically. I'd like that you go toward impact in the world, critical thinking, financial literacy, all of this kind of stuff.

Fadi Boulos (45:43):

Maybe because although I agree with making it more vocational, but for me, education and the educational system should be more about raising citizens, not only, I mean training people to become good workers. I mean, this is good, but beyond this, it should be really about citizenship, belonging to this world and making it a better world.

Dan Freehling (46:11):

So well said. I think you're spot on, and hopefully we can see things evolve in that direction. Fadi, this has been so fantastic to be able to talk with you, to learn from your experiences and your expertise. How can listeners learn more about you, about supportful, follow along and get in touch if they'd like.

Fadi Boulos (46:26):

First off, thank you, Dan, for giving me the opportunity to have this great conversation, touching base on many, many things. So in terms of contact, I'm available on LinkedIn, so Fadi Boulos is my first name. Our company website, www.supportful.world, and our company page on LinkedIn too. So these are the most straightforward channels. And yeah, I'm always available via email, fadi@supportful.world.

Dan Freehling (47:04):

Wonderful. We'll put those links in the show notes, and thank you so much again, Fadi, it's been a real pleasure.

Fadi Boulos (47:09):

Thank you again, Dan, I wish you all the best.

Dan Freehling (47:13):

Thanks to everyone listening, so if you've got something out of this episode, if you could please share with a friend or a colleague can take a second to leave a quick review, even just the stars is great, on whichever podcast app you're using, goes a long way in helping others to find the show. If you liked this episode, check out some of our previous on all things leadership, organizational culture and career development with real deal executives and experts I respect and trust. Here's a clip from a recent episode with Kerry Ann King, the founder and CEO of Eluminate Labs, a software development company dedicated to building solutions that put people on their wellbeing. First, give it a listen to learn about re-imagining productivity, cultural lessons from Google, leading global teams and so much more, and share it with someone who would find it useful.

Kerry Ann King (47:55):

Sometimes when I'm mentoring people about learning how to be a leader, I say, go take a dance class, go to a salsa class and lead and follow in that class. Because if you have to follow, you have to listen. If you're going to do what you're being asked to do correctly, you have to listen to the person you're dancing with, otherwise it doesn't work. And then if you lead, take the role of the leader, you suddenly realize you are responsible for communicating clearly and accurately what needs to happen next to the person you're dancing with. It's just such an incredible lesson in that give and take, and that's been incredibly influential to me as both a leader and frankly as a follower. Also, I think you've learned being in a band, right? What's a better example of having to learn how to cooperate than being in a band? So I feel like arts need to get out there more and the business world and say, we've got something to tell you to teach you in the business community.