Lakeshia Ekeigwe on Leadership as a Solemn Charge, Knowing Why People Hire You, and Not Tolerating Struggle Energy
In Brief: Lakeshia Ekeigwe (leaderthinking.com, linkedin.com/in/lakeshiaekeigwe), CEO and Founder of LeaderThinking Global LLC, joins host Dan Freehling to discuss modern leadership and the qualities and characteristics required for it. Lakeshia emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and the responsibility of leaders to create a healthy workplace culture. She also highlights the need for leaders to share the vision with their teams and help them understand their value and contribution. Lakeshia also discusses the unique challenges that lawyers face in leadership, such as the focus on legal excellence rather than leadership excellence and the impact of malpractice fears on decision-making. Lakeisha shares insights into her own success as a coach and consultant, attributing it to her belief in her abilities, her understanding of her zone of genius, and her clarity on why people hire her. She also discusses the life-changing concepts of emotional intelligence and finding one's own zone of genius.
Recommended Reading: "Coach Yourself to Success" by Talane Miedaner, “The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks, and “Emotional Intelligence 2.0” by Jean Greaves and Travis Bradberry.
Transcript
Dan Freehling:
Welcome to Forward-Looking Leadership, a podcast for visionary executives building future ready organizations. I'm your host, Dan Freehling. I'm the founder of the coaching and consulting practice, Contempus Leadership, developing the leaders and teams you want in charge through cutting-edge approaches and common-sense solutions. I'm honored to be joined today by Lakeshia Ekeigwe. Lakeshia is the CEO and founder of LeaderThinking Global LLC, where she coaches and consults with senior executive leaders in law and business, [00:00:30] helping them create lives they love and lead businesses and teams that thrive. She brings over 14 years of experience working with clients from diverse and prestigious organizations such as Johnson and Johnson, Accenture, Verizon, Kaiser Permanente, the Association of Corporate Council, City of Los Angeles, County of Los Angeles, University of Texas, Virginia Tech, and many others. Lakeshia and I did our advanced coach training together. She's a powerful coach in has since become a trusted friend and thought partner for me on all things leadership, coaching and business [00:01:00] listeners. You're in for lots of wisdom and insight from someone who's worked with executives at the top of their game. Thanks for joining me on Forward-Looking Leadership, Lakeshia.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Thanks for having me, Dan.
Dan Freehling:
Of course. Thanks for taking the time. First question for you. I noticed that we both emphasize what we call modern leadership in our practices, and that's something that's really important to me as I think about how I shape the work I do with leaders and with teams. And in your view, what different qualities and characteristics are required for modern leadership [00:01:30] than leadership in the past?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I think that modern leaders have to understand in a way that they never had to in times past that they are responsible for the people and culture with the same weight as they are for the work that they actually lead and drive. And though I believe you'll hear a lot of people say that culture starts at the top. I believe [00:02:00] that each and every person in an organization creates the culture. So each individual's behaviors, their mindsets, their actions, they create the culture, but it is the role of the modern leader to ensure that the workplace culture is healthy. So in order to do that, they have to have high emotional intelligence. I believe that they have to be self-aware about the behaviors they themselves model, [00:02:30] and then also be ready to pivot when they need to make changes within themselves or changes within their team or organization.
The modern leader is really responsible for mission values and vision alignment. And how we know we're in alignment are the behaviors and the culture. Work can get done in very toxic cultures. And for [00:03:00] many years in leadership that was okay, right? Burn and churn through people, just, it doesn't matter who gets injured in the process, just get the work done, get the numbers up, and that's no longer acceptable as I'm seeing in different organizations really around the world. And then I think another really important aspect of the modern leader journey is that they understand that they have [00:03:30] to share the vision with the people they lead. I think there was a time where sort of the greater longer view vision, longer term vision of an organization was kind of kept secretly at the top. And there are some organizations where that is necessary because of what they do, but I think the modern leader has to understand that they do need to keep their people sort of informed [00:04:00] of the vision, helping them understand the values that drive the vision, and then how each individual's effort supports that so that they can see where they fit in and where their value add is.
Because studies demonstrate that people want to feel like they're contributing to something bigger than themselves. And so then there's no room for autocracy in that a leader will have the final decision and decision making authority, [00:04:30] but getting people bought into the vision and then having their actions be values aligned as a team and as an organization makes everyone's job easier and happier. So I believe it's emotional intelligence, making sure that people understand the vision and the values where they fit in it, and that they understand that they really are responsible for the culture.
Dan Freehling:
So well said. And I agree [00:05:00] with all of those points. I know you mentioned that that's not going to be accepted anymore to have that sort of old school command and control style of leadership. I'm wondering, in your opinion, what kind of led to this change? Why is this changing?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I think that the generations sort of Gen Xers, Gen Zs where people saw themselves in organizations in prior generations, lifetime employees would be on a job and retire [00:05:30] from a job. People had their identities somewhat defined by their title or the work that they did. I think successive generations just are not having that same experience. They don't believe the same things. They don't believe that a company will be loyal to them for 40 years or 30 years or 20 years. And so how they [00:06:00] view work is very different than prior generations viewed work. So I think that that's part of it. I think the self definition of what it means to work is just different now. I also believe that as leaders have been, I think there was in earlier generations, there was this belief that leaders were somehow superhuman [00:06:30] different than everyone. Everyone else, they were revered.
And you think about some of the great, what we would consider some of the great leaders in history, and maybe they did have stellar qualities and characteristics, but I think that with social media and general media reporting on individuals [00:07:00] behaviors, conduct exposes, things like that, there's an understanding that these people are no different than anyone else, and I'm not going to put my faith and trust in them or the organization that they are a part of. I'm going to take my sort of destiny in my own hands and I will decide how I work when I work, who I work for and how long I work there. So I think that's kind of part of it.
Dan Freehling:
That's [00:07:30] so interesting on both counts and this kind of humanizing of the top leadership and taking them down from the Pantheon.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Yes,
Dan Freehling:
These people brought us through World War II or whatever that was at that point, and it's like, okay, these are also just people like you and me, and it's not something to be necessarily revered, but it's something where there needs to be a two-way street between organizations and employees.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
[00:08:00] Exactly. That's exactly what I think is a part of it for sure.
Dan Freehling:
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. So you work with lots of really high level executives in your practice. I'm wondering what you think sets the most impactful executives apart from the rest?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I really think it is that a couple of things. These leaders see leadership as a sacred [00:08:30] charge. I have this group of people, their livelihoods are in my control, if you will, in my hands. I want to develop these people. I want them to achieve their own personal development goals and professional development goals. So I think what sets really impactful executives apart from the rest is the way they view their privilege [00:09:00] of leadership, the way they view the people they lead, that they, and I'll harken back to embody high emotional intelligence starting with themselves. They're highly self-aware. And then I think another really important thing, and you'll hear this a lot or we all hear this a lot, is that they're empathetic. But one of the things that I try [00:09:30] to make sure leaders understand is don't confuse empathy with tolerating bad behavior and feeling like you have to put up with a toxic employee or someone who is not aligned with the values and the vision of the organization tolerating that is not empathy. It's really lack of leadership. So really an understanding that [00:10:00] you can do really hard things with great love and great care and balancing the needs of the organization and the team that you lead with empathy for individuals, but also understanding what true empathy in a workplace really is and not confusing it with something else.
Dan Freehling:
I was just having a conversation with [00:10:30] somebody yesterday too, and we were talking about how much of leadership is taught versus innate, and I'm wondering where you stand on that. How much of these qualities that set executives apart do you think come from either how you're wired or how you're brought up or how much of this could be learned over time too?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
That's such an interesting question and really a philosophical, [00:11:00] philosophically intriguing question in the grander scheme of things. I think it depends on what the leader's role is specifically, I want to use the right word, circumstantially. So really kind of who they are. Adaptively, I think some aspects and elements of leadership [00:11:30] are based on skillset, training, education, core knowledge. I think that is learned. Then I also think that care, compassion, empathy, being people-centric and holistic, I also that can be learned. I think there are people who do come by it naturally. [00:12:00] I don't know that one is better than the other. I think each one has its own unique value set that it brings to it whether you're naturally this way or you've learned how to be this way because of certain experiences that you've had. And I think it's a question that really doesn't have a simple straight answer.
Dan Freehling:
And I love that idea of not being sure which way is better if it [00:12:30] comes natural or if you've learned it. It just reminds me of so many other things in life where sometimes even when someone might not be naturally gifted at something, but they've learned it, they have sometimes even a deeper understanding of it because they've had to make that effort to learn it and they can teach it better to others too.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. I think, and I think I've seen both over my years of life and of working with [00:13:00] leaders and coaching leaders, and I think the outcome of both can be really beautiful and I don't know that it matters how they come by it.
Dan Freehling:
What a great answer. Thank you for going there with me on the philosophical question also, you came up through law firms and you work with a lot of lawyers. What unique challenges do you see lawyers facing in leadership [00:13:30] versus other professionals?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I started working in law firms when I was 19 years old. I was a receptionist in a global law firm, White and Case and had never even been in a lawyer's office before. I worked in that law firm. And I met the most incredible people. And I always say if my business went bust and I had to work again, I would [00:14:00] really want to be a receptionist in a law firm. You just meet the most incredible people and you have the most incredible conversations, not just clients and things like that, that visit the firm, but I would have lawyers always standing around talking to me about different things, their problems, their challenges, their ideas, their struggles, just and I was very young. I didn't have a whole lot of life experience, but I loved listening to people and I always [00:14:30] tried to have a kind word for people, and I became a really trusted confidant. So I ended up working in law from the time I was 19 until my mid forties. So over the course of about 25, 26 years in law firms, some of the unique challenges I saw that lawyers face in leadership versus other professionals, and I've had a really [00:15:00] firsthand view of this.
I would think that one of the biggest impacts is that lawyers tend to be fact and evidenced-based thinkers. And so leadership can be very fluid and very unknown. And so when you think in fact an evidence and you have to deal with [00:15:30] a lot of fluidity, it isn't a natural shift in the way that you think and approach solution strategizing. So I think that's one thing. I also know that most lawyers are groomed to be excellent in the practice of law and not in the business of law. So what it takes to be a good leader and not just of the people aspect of it, when you have [00:16:00] a business that is thriving financially, you can pay the bills, you can pay, you can meet payroll, you can pay your vendors. You have a healthy financial firm, then you don't have the stresses and pressures of not being able to lead people effectively.
Well, on the flip side of that, when your business is struggling financially, one of the things that you go to right away is fix that. What do I have to do to fix that? We've got to bill more. [00:16:30] We've got to work harder. So again, most lawyers are not groomed to be excellent in the business of law. They're groomed to be excellent in the practice of law. So a lot of law firms oftentimes are struggling financially, not all, but many are. And so developing that leader tool can be challenging. Now, I'm not talking about Am 100 firms that are making hundreds of millions of dollars and even [00:17:00] billions of dollars, but smaller practice firms. Then another aspect I think about this is the professional development model in law is an apprentice framework, and it's an apprentice framework again for legal excellence, not leadership excellence. So for example, when a lawyer comes out of law school, now imagine they've gone through law school, they've graduated, they've [00:17:30] taken at least one state bar, possibly a federal bar, and sometimes more than one state bar.
So they've gone through this process and yet when they go to practice law, they're considered a first year literally back down to the bottom. And so for every year in your practice, that's how you identified, they're a first year, they're a second year, they're a third year, they're a fourth year. So by the time they make it to where [00:18:00] leadership actually is at the partnership level, it's about a seven to 10 year journey. And you've been focused on legal excellence, not leadership excellence. And now as a partner, what do you have to do? You need to drive business and do business development. So leadership until just I'd say the last, I don't know, 10, 15 years hasn't really been something that the legal profession has focused [00:18:30] on, but there are a lot of great organizations now. Global leaders in law is one of them, the Association of Corporate Counsel, different organizations that are really teaching law firms about leadership because legal leadership is somewhat different than other types of leadership for one thing. Other industries don't have malpractice fears and worries and woes, whereas lawyers do. [00:19:00] So it's complex and different. But I think those are some of the unique challenges lawyers face in leadership versus other kinds of professionals.
Dan Freehling:
I mean, it sounds a lot like some other professions where people are so focused on the technical work that they're doing and becoming expert in that, and then all of a sudden they're asked to, okay, you're now senior enough to become a leader. You can switch and become a leader without any previous [00:19:30] actual leadership experience or people leadership experience or business leadership experience.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
That's exactly right. And it does a disservice to the individuals. There are some that have taken matters into their own hands, and they hire leadership coaches, they take leadership classes, they really invest in their own leadership journey. And I'm starting to see various firms understand the value of that, [00:20:00] but I would certainly say it is not where it should be within the industry.
Dan Freehling:
You mentioned the malpractice fears affecting leadership. I'd love if you can expand on that a little bit. How do you see that ongoing threat of about practice, whatever that is, suits or claims impacting leadership?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I think that the pursuit of excellence of who you are as a lawyer so [00:20:30] that you get it right is the prevailing interest and goal. And so developing as a leader is where your interests lie. And so why do I want to be the most excellent leader I can be is because I want to get it right all the time so that my clients don't sue me and I experience reputational harm and [00:21:00] also reputational harm to my firm. So I think it's why I stated that is because I think the focus is on excellence so much so because in part, that thread is real and it exists
Dan Freehling:
That kind of perfectionism and for very good reason being at play there.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Yes, exactly.
Dan Freehling:
Yeah, much less of the Silicon [00:21:30] Valley kind of move fast and break things that can be so common. You can't really do that in law and a number of other professions too, for that matter,
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
They will shudder hearing that. Yes, right. It's the exact opposite, right? It's the exact opposite mindset. It's the exact opposite heartset even, right? Yeah, the exact opposite.
Dan Freehling:
That's very interesting. And it's something I think about a lot of clients in the social sector [00:22:00] space, and they're working with vulnerable populations a lot of the time too. And it's a very similar thing where you have to be much more careful than you would be at a generic business or something where it's just a consumer product or something that you have to take the standard precaution so that it's not harmful in of itself, but it doesn't have nearly that degree of potential ramification there.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
And actually, I'll even take it a little bit further. It's not just the malpractice suit because there [00:22:30] is malpractice insurance that every lawyer has, but it's also if the malpractice, depending on the kind of malpractice it is, the lawyer could be disbarred or suspended. So you've spent your whole eight years of your life working towards this goal of being a lawyer and then another seven to 10 trying to get to partner level practice [00:23:00] in your career. And one mistake could take it all away. That's a lot of pressure.
Dan Freehling:
Definitely. And that context is so key to have when you're working with these folks. Definitely. Yeah. So beyond the typical factors of, you obviously work hard and you have a number of years of experience and all of that kind of typical usual stuff. What would you attribute [00:23:30] as the biggest contributors to your success as a coach and consultant?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Oh, that's a great question. I always believed I could do this. I never ever doubted it. And I remember being a little girl. I gave a public speech when I was in junior high school and the graduating class of the elementary school. I gave a speech welcoming them to our junior high school. [00:24:00] And I loved speaking to people and teaching and sharing from a speaking perspective. And that was kind of the beginning. And then that 25 years that I was working in law, I learned so much about the struggles of lawyers. And when I learned about coaching as a modality and I learned about it through reading a book called Coach Yourself to Success [00:24:30] by a woman named Talane Miedaner, she was actually, I believe the president of the ICF at one point.
It changed my life. And when I read that, I thought, okay, I'm a coach. That's what I am, and now I'm going to find out the correct way to do this. So I always believed I could do it. I never doubted it because in a way I was already coaching people and just learned the right way to do it. [00:25:00] And then I think I've always known my zone of genius without knowing I knew my zone of genius, but I've always known my zone of genius and I always operated effortlessly in it. And I never tried to learn do anything that I had to struggle against to learn. I just wasn't interested. And so I think that has led to my success because I knew I was people [00:25:30] oriented. I loved listening to people and creating a safe space for them to be able to share their inner most fears, thoughts, challenges, joys, and then the other, and I think this is really hugely important. Know why people hire me. I know why organizations hire me. I know [00:26:00] why law firms hire me. I know why individuals hire me, and I'm always very clear on that. And so then I know who is an ideal client for me to work with. Even if they meet the criteria on paper, they may still not be an ideal client depending on how much of an energy drain they might be or where values misaligned. [00:26:30] So knowing why people work with me, why I work with them, I think that's been hugely beneficial.
Dan Freehling:
This is so helpful. I think to a lot of folks listening are likely either already coaches or considering that or even adding that on. So this is just really helpful to hear. If I could ask, why do people work with you? You said you really honed in on that. I'd love to hear how you envision that.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
[00:27:00] So I've boiled it down to three things, and in this order I believe it's comfort, clarity, and confidence. And so the first thing is I engender trust and an understanding that I have no judgment around the reason why they've hired a coach or a consultant in the first place. One of the things [00:27:30] I love about coaching is that it is present and future based. So it's ripe with opportunity and really the past doesn't even matter. We really don't have to go backwards at all.
Dan Freehling:
Starting from right here.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Say that again.
Dan Freehling:
Starting from right here? Yeah,
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Starting from right here. So that comfort piece is there. So many times when people go to hire a coach, a consultant, they want [00:28:00] to do all of this sort of assessing in a way, and not that that's not valuable and not that it isn't helpful and a little bit of knowledge about the team, depending if it's an organization or something is helpful, but I don't believe you have to do sort of that deep dive going backwards per se. Now that's not true in every instance, but per se, I really don't. So that's comforting to people. [00:28:30] And then the second thing is clarity. So many people on a deep inner level know what they want to do and know how they want to feel, and they actually even know who they are. And so many times they have muted all of that messaging about themselves because they [00:29:00] have a fear of judgment.
Maybe. Maybe they are struggling with imposter syndrome and 70% of working adults do struggle, male and female across the board with imposter syndrome. So helping them rise up who they are, what they want, how they want to feel, what is their vision for themselves, either personally in their life or at work in their career professionally, [00:29:30] if they're a leader of a team or an organization for the organization, what are their values personally and how do they align with the organization's values? And getting really very, very clear on those aspects of their being is clarifying for them. So now they have clarity, and now once they have the comfort and the clarity so they feel safe, they're clear [00:30:00] now their confidence level soars and they believe that they can create whatever they want within their organization, within their own life, within their team, within people that they have influence and impact over. So I know that that's why people hire me.
Dan Freehling:
Thanks so much for sharing that. I think getting to that understanding for ourselves, just for folks listening and wanting to apply this is so key. Regardless of whether [00:30:30] you're a coach or a consultant or even just an employee somewhere, that knowing why people love working with you is such a key thing to understand. Then you can, I think it's the Dolly Parton expression, right? Figure out who you are and then do that on purpose. You can start doing that on purpose and really, really getting that understanding at a deep level.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
It's so funny that you mentioned Dolly Parton. I have a training where I quote her all the time, [00:31:00] and one of my favorite quotes ever is from her and she says, become a professional. You know what you can and cannot do, know what you will and will not do. And so my work with people really helps them become a professional them.
Dan Freehling:
Wow, that's powerful. And from someone who's done it so successfully, one of the things I really admire about [00:31:30] you and that I really enjoy about our conversations is just how you treat your practice and you really just play big and think big. I think that's something that's really inspiring to me. So I'd love to hear what you're most excited about for the future of your own coaching and consulting practice.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
So I'm actually narrowing and I’m really excited about that. I've had my business now in my 15th year actually now, and one of the things [00:32:00] that I'm super excited about is doing more speaking. I really love teaching people how a couple of topics in particular, but helping them understand what emotional intelligence is and how they can best embody it and embrace it and then operate from a place of high emotional intelligence. It's really life-changing for people, and I love being able to be a conduit [00:32:30] through whom that knowledge comes. I love helping people identify and embrace their zone of genius. Again, another life-changing concept. And the gentleman who conceptualized that is a man by the name of Gay Hendricks and he's a psychologist who believes we have four zones of being and that our zone of genius is our highest and best zone. So teaching that concept, and then I put my own spin [00:33:00] on what that means to me.
But empowering people with that is just so exciting to me. Then helping people understand that they can have the career of their dreams really without sacrificing their health or their happiness or their relationships and helping them find the tools and understand how to apply the tools to do that. I'm really excited about that. So in narrowing my business, [00:33:30] I will be doing far more public speaking this year and I'm really super excited about that. And then I have designed a workshop series for senior women in law, so women leaders in law that are retreats. And so they will for the most part be seaside side and we will be talking about how to align your vision with your values, how to build, nurture, [00:34:00] and leverage your network with intention. But most importantly with integrity, because a lot of people have anxiety around networking and they feel like if I'm in relationship with you and then I ask you for business or present you with a business opportunity or a business ask, then it feels like I'm out of integrity and teaching them how to build and nurture and leverage with integrity all along.
[00:34:30] Then that feeling and fear goes away. Teaching women how to be a rainmaker in their life and in their business gender, I'm sorry, pay inequality in legal is still a challenge, which is so shocking to me. But really helping women learn how to ask for their worth and their value is something that I'm super, super passionate about. So these retreats, I'm really excited about that. And [00:35:00] then I have a couple of corporate clients that I'm still supporting and I will continue to support them, but I've scaled my business down in that way for 2024 and I'm really excited about it
Dan Freehling:
And really just focusing on what you want to be doing here. And this all sounds so exciting and so valuable for people. So thanks for sharing some of these future plans with us.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Thank you.
Dan Freehling:
I'd love to hear just [00:35:30] the brief overview. I know these are in-depth topics that you can go on for years and years and years of study on. You mentioned emotional intelligence being a life-changing concept for people. I'd love if you can just expand on that a bit more of how you've seen that or how you see that as a life-changing concept for folks and where they can get a better understanding of that.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
So I'll answer your question backwards. So a great resource are the emotional [00:36:00] intelligence books that were authored by Dr. Travis, I think his last name is. Bradberry. Yeah. And his books are really excellent on emotional intelligence, but a lot of people don't understand, you'll hear this term, right? They made me so mad. No, they didn't make you mad. You made yourself mad. So people, when you understand that emotional intelligence is [00:36:30] to basically, I kind of synthesize it down to these two simple sentences. I control my actions, let's say, and behaviors, and I control my reaction to the actions and behaviors of others. So I control myself and I control my reaction to others. So many times people feel [00:37:00] like they have license to engage in bad behavior as a response to the negative bad behavior of others. And that's just not true. It is the opposite of emotional intelligence. And what happens is why that is life changing is because now, and this is in my training on emotional intelligence, when you're in high emotional intelligence, you [00:37:30] observe but don't absorb. So someone could literally be attacking you saying horrible things about you just creating a bad environment or a bad experience. And instead of allowing yourself to dive into that and react to what they're bringing forward, you observe it instead. And it's [00:38:00] like, wow, they must really be having a bad day.
Things must not be going well for them because really you aren't in their behavior. You only get into their behavior when you allow yourself to be inserted into it. And so when you know that you control, you can control, you should control your response and your reaction to others. It's life changing [00:38:30] because now I'm like, wow, that has absolutely nothing to do with me. I don't own that. I don't own that energy. I don't own those words. I don't own that mindset or thinking it literally has nothing to do with me. I see it, I observe it, but I'm not absorbing that in any way.
Dan Freehling:
That's huge. And I think that can be kind of a mind blowing concept to people when you introduce that in whatever way you introduce it, and they're the ones [00:39:00] of emotional intelligence here, but you don't just automatically have to be drawn into someone else's negative behavior and respond in kind, and you have that choice and that way to look at it as a learning opportunity and really control your own reaction to that and say, what would best serve me here? What do I want to take away from this? What can I observe with this? That's enormous
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
That thank Yeah, thank you. [00:39:30] I've had people literally write me and say, you don't understand how life changing that was, and I didn't invent emotional intelligence. But when you give people practical ways to understand what it looks like to be embodying high emotional intelligence versus what low ei, low emotional intelligence looks like so that they can understand [00:40:00] how they are being in that moment and then they can make a decision about how they want to be in any given moment, that really is life-changing for everyone. And I do my best to practice that myself. And when I do it well, it's really fascinating really, because you can just become curious [00:40:30] about, wow, what happened to you today or what happened in your life? And then it also allows you to have empathy versus anger. I could talk about this all day, but I'll stop there. It allows you to choose how you want to feel and who you want to be in a moment that could really end badly.
Dan Freehling:
And similarly on zone of genius. [00:41:00] So you mentioned you have a unique spin on that concept too. I'd love to hear a little bit more on that if you don't mind.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
In our, and this is Gay Hendricks's thinking right now that I'm going to share not my own, but one way that people can identify their zone of genius is that they're in a state of effortlessness, so they're in ease and flow. When you're in your zone of genius at work, you never feel like you're working. [00:41:30] And it can be confusing to people because we are taught things like you have to work hard or work should feel like struggle just in our concepts, right?
Dan Freehling:
Yeah. That kind of grit mentality of just you have to stay in there and tough it out and put tons of effort into it.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Exactly. And so I gave my zone of genius presentation for an organization one time [00:42:00] and I was having people do introspective thought on what I was sharing. And one man who's a leader raised his hand and he said, the way that I've been doing performance reviews will change from this point on. And he said, every performance review, and you probably know this yourself has a needs improvement or area of opportunity [00:42:30] or these are your strengths and this is a weak area. He's like, why are we testing people on their weak areas? Why are we giving them needs improvement if they are a 10 in three areas and the fourth area they're a two, why don't we just kill the two? And I was like, that is so fast. I hadn't really thought about that, but he's right. Why do we want anyone [00:43:00] in struggle energy?
And so I will say it, my spin on it, but maybe it's just through my lens versus spin for me, no one should tolerate being in struggle energy about anything. And they should make a decision about I want as much of my work life or work time to be in my zone of genius versus [00:43:30] any struggle energy. So what do I need to absolutely get rid of completely and have someone else do delegate, whatever? What is maybe even in my zone of excellence, there are these four zones in my zone of excellence. I'm good at it, I can do it, but it doesn't feed and energize me, which is another aspect of the teaching. So it's effortless and energizing. And so making a decision [00:44:00] about how I want to feel every day, and this is what I teach based upon my zone of genius and individuals on their zone of genius. What is it that I refuse to do any longer? What is it that I know puts me in struggle, energy, and how will I map map out a strategy or a plan to ensure that I'm not doing those things anymore and that I remain in my zone of genius?
Dan Freehling:
Yeah, I think [00:44:30] the zone of excellence versus the zone of genius was what really got me on this concept too of I think that's a very confusing thing for some people, but you can be really great at something and make a good living at it and like it enough, but it's not your true zone of genius that's not at that level. And that's actually counterintuitively the hardest part to overcome is those things that you're very good at and [00:45:00] can make a good living with, but are just not where your true genius lies.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Exactly. And what I love about it is, again, and I think I stated this earlier, but I think it is just worth repeating is zone of genius is really the great equalizer. So back to that question that you asked me about leaders that have the greatest impact on people. When you realize [00:45:30] that each and every individual that you're leading has a zone of genius, just like you aren't better than they are in any way because you have a zone of genius, they have a zone of genius. And if you can be the person as a leader that helps them amplify that in the workplace, how much stronger of a team are you going to create [00:46:00] when you've got all of these individuals that are operating in their zone of genius and not in struggle, not doing a task that they literally despise because it might've been part of the job description when they took the job, but now that you've gotten to understand and know who they are, that they could spend eight hours in an energy draining energy sucking task and three hours in their zone of genius and turn out something that could change everything.
Dan Freehling:
[00:46:30] I think that's so well said. And it's something I think about a lot in terms of the time management and when people start going down like a time management route with things, it's really not about time management. Most of the time it's really energy management and what's draining you and what's giving you life. And we've all spent tons of time on tasks and projects that are just really, you're really enthusiastic about your bringing a lot too, and [00:47:00] that feels like it flies by and then you can have the same number of hours on something that's draining you. And it feels like that takes forever. And I think that's something that's a valuable concept for managers to pick up on is how are you making sure that people to the extent possible are in their zone of genius or moving toward that and in tasks that are just so life-giving that the time issue becomes a non-question.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I love so much that you said that too about the energy component, [00:47:30] managing to the energy versus the time, the concept that a person has to be here eight hours to accomplish what we say this work or the compensation for your time has to look like this. We all know that some people can get their job done in three hours versus eight, and the quality is there. [00:48:00] Everything that is required is there and accomplished. And so would you give people back their time and their energy when you can?
Dan Freehling:
Yeah, I think to the earlier point on modern leadership, I think that's a big thing I see with it too is where we're in this started off slowly, but this move away from this industrial mentality where you're kind of like a cog in the machine and you clock it and clock out.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Exactly.
Dan Freehling:
This job can be done [00:48:30] by anyone who holds the title for it and into how are we positioning people to do work that they can uniquely do well, and that that's not necessarily time bound in the way that you would've before. It's just something I think about a lot.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Me too. It's funny, right? And maybe that's the coach's mindset in us, right? It's really focused on the human being, but what would that take? It would take organizations that trust people.
Dan Freehling:
[00:49:00] I think that's right. And I'm wondering if we're getting to the point. I tend to think that we are, we're getting to the point where certain organizations are seeing a competitive advantage in going in this direction, and they're outpacing other organizations that are not willing to go in this direction. And I think the more that what we see as coaches and have seen for a long time as being right and being dignity, giving to people and helping [00:49:30] them maximize their potential is starting to align in certain circumstances in certain businesses, but more and more with what's the strong business case for something. And my hope, my optimistic case for moving forward is that we get more of that.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
It would be great because how people are able to develop in other areas, and I always think about people [00:50:00] with families and children. We as society, I think have devalued the role. There's a meme that goes around on Facebook that says that society expects women to, let's see work. They don't have children and parent, they don't work. And I thought that was really profound because it really does take time to nurture and develop children. [00:50:30] And if we as a society don't value people's time, understand that they've got this brilliance, this genius talent, skill, education, all of it where they can be of value and it doesn't have to look like a traditional model, whereas, and then the time that they need in order to whatever, be home when their kids come home from school, pick them up from school, do whatever it is that they want to do.
And by the way, I said women because that's the [00:51:00] meme, but this would be gender neutral for anyone who has people in their lives. It may not be children, it may be parents, it may not be parents, it might be their pets, whatever it is, whatever brings them joy. But to allow them to be a holistically fulfilled individual, it doesn't mean that their business would have to suffer if you trusted people enough to bring their brilliance and genius and probably [00:51:30] exceed your expectations while the payback to them is time and energy. The world would definitely be a better place
Dan Freehling:
To that. Here's to that. So I know we've mentioned a lot of books and that kind of thing throughout our conversation. I'm wondering what's the leadership book, or it doesn't have to necessarily be a book, but any other kind of resource in that space that you find yourself coming back to the most often?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I tend [00:52:00] to for leaders, more personal development books than leadership books. And the reason why is that I believe no development happens in a vacuum. If you develop personally, you develop professionally. If you develop professionally, you develop personally. I think that there are a lot of leadership books that I've come across and tell me if this is your experience [00:52:30] too, just are repeating a lot of catchphrases and mantras and
Dan Freehling:
Yeah, serial filler they call it.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
I didn't know I had a name. Thank you for enlightening me, Dan. Serial filler. I love that. I'm going to have to write that down. And so I think that when a leader has, I mean I think there [00:53:00] are some good ones out there, don't get me wrong, but I think that when a leader is in their zone of genius and they tap into what is effortless and energizing for them, they're able to recognize that in other people when they have the skill and the talent and the intellect to lead the leaders who lead the work or who do the work. I think helping them focus [00:53:30] on who they want to be so that the work that they do is excellent, exceptional genius. I think for my clients anyway, it's been more on the personal development side than the leadership side, to be honest.
Dan Freehling:
That makes so much sense. And I totally agree on some of these leadership books are so surface level and they just have a neat little [00:54:00] system or something that they say it is going to solve everything or I think you're so right on that. I guess on the personal development books, so you mentioned some of those, the Gay Hendricks one is The Big leap and I think he has a separate one on expounding on the zone of genius. Do you have a recommendation for folks on a personal development resource?
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
The books that I mentioned, Talane Miedaner, Coach Yourself to Success. I think it was [00:54:30] a life changing book for me. I think it would be for others. I think that the emotional intelligence books, I think are, I must read for any leader. I highly, highly recommend those books. And again, so those would be the ones that I would recommend off the top of my head. Now, this is going to be another thing that sounds probably a little cheesy in a way. [00:55:00] Well, and let me back up. I love Harvard Business Review articles of which you are an esteemed contributor on that. So I love articles. I love things that can be read in without a huge time investment or time commitment. Personally, I think there are a lot of good articles on LinkedIn. There are trainings on LinkedIn, if you have [00:55:30] LinkedIn premium, they're learning portal. I can't think of what it's called right now. Yeah,
Dan Freehling:
LinkedIn Learning. Yep,
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
LinkedIn Learning. Okay. Nice
Dan Freehling:
And easy.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
LinkedIn learning. Awesome, awesome, awesome trainings with world class leaders. I definitely think people should be taking advantage of that. So if you have a premium membership, those classes are free, I believe. I mean, the ones that I've taken are [00:56:00] at no additional charge.
Dan Freehling:
I think you're right on that. Yeah,
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
That is what I would recommend. And then you could search for leadership. You could search for empathy and leadership. You could search for emotional intelligence and leadership. You could sort of hone it down into the specific aspect of leadership that you're looking to learn and grow from. So I highly recommend LinkedIn Learning. I highly recommend Harvard Business Review articles, articles on LinkedIn [00:56:30] from just various people that contribute their thought leadership on various topics. And then I love just little books on kind of topics like self-love and topics on being versus doing and learning how to write your own story. One of the, in Coach U [00:57:00] 2009 when I started with the core essentials program and exercise, again, I'm using the word life changing a lot, but I really mean this. One of the exercises that we were given was to write our autobiography. And when people work with me, that is one of the assignments that I give them.
Every client that works one-on-one with me, I have them write their autobiography. And I remembered thinking [00:57:30] my autobiography, my life's not that interesting. I can't imagine what I'd even write. And that process was so life-changing for me to write my autobiography. I thought about things that I had not remembered and how they made me feel and what lessons I learned from them and why I taught some of the things that [00:58:00] I taught. It was a missing piece to a puzzle in my life. And I also attribute reading kind of just these little mini books that you'll see at Barnes and Noble, or if you are at Home Goods or something like that. I'm always picking up little books like that. I picked up three the other day. One was on balance, one was on compassion, and the other one was on self-love. And so I think spending time, it may not sound lofty, but spending time [00:58:30] thinking about topics like that are some of the best things you can do as a leader.
Dan Freehling:
I think that's a beautiful sentiment and a great place to leave folks to consider who they're being as a leader and how they can focus inward on their own personal improvement. So thank you so much for joining me, Lakeshia. It really means a lot that you took the time. I'd love to hear where people can find out more about [00:59:00] your work and get in touch if they'd like to.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
So my website is leaderthinking.com. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I love the platform, love connecting with people on the platform. I'd like to know what interests your audience, what they're thinking, what interests them. So definitely connect on LinkedIn.
Dan Freehling:
Great. I would definitely encourage you all to take [00:59:30] advantage of that offer. And I'll definitely put the links in the show notes at contempusleadership.com. So Lakeshia, thank you again. And listeners, thank you as always for joining us. If you got something out of the show, if you could share it with a colleague and leave a quick review, that would do a lot to help spread the word. And Lakeshia, thank you so much again.
Lakeshia Ekeigwe:
Thank you for having me, Dan.
